Final position
GM Ponomariov (2723) – GM Kramnik (2766) [D45]
Corus Wijk aan Zee, Netherlands, 18.01.2007
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Nf3 Nbd7 6.Bd2 Bd6 7.Bd3 0-0 8.0-0 dxc4 9.Bxc4 e5 10.Qc2 exd4 11.exd4 Nb6 12.Bb3 Bg4 13.Ne5 Bc7 14.Be3 Qd6 15.Ne4 Nxe4 16.Nxg4 Nf6 17.Ne5 Nbd7 18.Nf3 Nd5 19.Qf5 Game drawn 1/2-1/2
Click here to replay the game. 
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
Another pointless game…
No need to replay. Players that produce such crap should be banned from tournaments.
Announcer1: Welcome to fine day for a football match between Chelsea and Liverpool. Let’s go down to the field for the start of the match.
Announcer2: The team captians are shaking hands before the match. What a show of sportsmanship.
Announcer1: This is odd. The players are now walking off the pitch. Let’s send it down below to our field reporter.
FieldReporter: This is unprecedented. Apparently the two teams have agreed to a tie!
Announcer1: I’m speechless.
Announcer2: Indeed.
Crowd: *Loud Whistles*
A riot breaks out.
Announcer1: I think this may be the last time we use celebrity chess players as honorary coaches.
yalie: badest, sitzkrieg: here is khlaifman on kramnik (from Russianbear’s translation on chessninja.com)
Kramnik – it seems like everything is ok. No problems with black, though it is a pity that now he has gotten Petroffied [ok, in the original Russian, the Petroff – 1,e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6- is known as the Russian, so in the original it was about Kramnik getting “Russified” -RB] and doesn’t make any attempts to start a fight with black at all. If one has such an approach to playing with black, one has to win a lot with white in order to fight for the first place in a tournament with a field like this, and not be bogged down in the usual category of a “small plus score”. From that point of view, the victory with white over Shirov is exactly what is needed. If Vladimir beat Navarra in a technically won position yesterday, I would consider him the main favorite, without any reservations. But now, he is just one of several.
Drawnik made it again.
farrooj: pono-kramnik draw
Jan-18-07 Pounamu Knight: Pono-Kramnik – Xpected.
Jan-18-07 farrooj: What’s the point of radjabov’s a5?
Jan-18-07 slavyi: hahahh, Kramnik draws! Again! In less than 20! With most of the pieces on the board?!!?!?!
Jan-18-07
Per: Congrats to the world champ! Today he got his desired draw after only making 18 moves.
Jan-18-07 badest: farrooj already… I guess Kramink doesn’t care much about Corus.
csmath: Kramnik doesn’t care about anything else than not to lose a game, that is his utmost interest. I only pity his fans.
Jan-18-07 cannibal: There you go, the world champion takes a shameful 19 moves draw. I’m not a Kramnik hater, and I admit he pushed really hard in both his white games, but would someone tell him, that it’s also possible to win with black? I don’t see him win the tournament with this strategy (unless he wins ALL his whites from now on).
slavyi: IMHO Kramnik is a great player with the worst ever attitude!
farrooj: pono-kramnik draw
Jan-18-07 Pounamu Knight: Pono-Kramnik – Xpected.
Jan-18-07 farrooj: What’s the point of radjabov’s a5?
Jan-18-07 slavyi: hahahh, Kramnik draws! Again! In less than 20! With most of the pieces on the board?!!?!?!
Jan-18-07
Per: Congrats to the world champ! Today he got his desired draw after only making 18 moves.
Jan-18-07 badest: farrooj already… I guess Kramink doesn’t care much about Corus.
csmath: Kramnik doesn’t care about anything else than not to lose a game, that is his utmost interest. I only pity his fans.
Jan-18-07 cannibal: There you go, the world champion takes a shameful 19 moves draw. I’m not a Kramnik hater, and I admit he pushed really hard in both his white games, but would someone tell him, that it’s also possible to win with black? I don’t see him win the tournament with this strategy (unless he wins ALL his whites from now on).
slavyi: IMHO Kramnik is a great player with the worst ever attitude!
I don`t think it`s Kramnik`s fault. I dont think it`s any chess player fault. It`s just part of their strategies and ppl like Topalov who cares for the audience are quite few.The main problem is the tournaments rules. But let me copy-past something:
“There is something very special about this Super-Tournament in Sofia. In many events with top players there tend to be a large number of draws. In order to avoid this situation the Bulgarian organisers have simply decided to ban draws from their tournament – more specifically, to eliminate draw offers. This is how it works:
A draw by mutual agreement between the players is forbidden.
No player is permitted to speak to his opponent or offer him a draw
A player can claim the draw only in case of perpetual check, threefold repetition and if the position is a theoretical draw.
The draw offer is made to the arbiter, who is the only person who can decide the outcome of the game.
The arbiter will be advised by a strong Grandmaster.
The chief arbiter of the event is Joaquin Espejo (Spain), deputy arbiters are Boris Postovski (USA) and Panaqiotis Nikolopoulos (Greece). The GM advisor is Zurab Azmaiparashvili (Georgia), FIDE Vice President.”
That`s what all of us want and how it should be (a copy drom M-tel Master`s rules)
It is all about character.
If you can’t be brave on a chess board, can you be brave in life?
If a building is on fire, will Kramnik help you?
This is a Kramnik-style win. He is a sportsman of the year in Russia and a WC champion. How can’t you love this guy!
Great big hurray for the amazing and attractive new world champion!!! Insomnia is now completely cured: just watch Kramnik playing chess. Hope he buries his title deep down his front yard and never accept a challenge for it from anyone! Titles are to be kept safe from harm and not taking any risk of losing them.
Chess is the only competition where the world’s best player’s regularly don’t try to win. The solution to these draws is very simple:
Win: 1 Point
Loss: 0 Points
Draw: 0 Points
Every day it is the same thing.
Day after day.
Blog after Blog.
Everywhere I look it is the same.
PEOPLE HATE DRAWS.
and what is done about it
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING.
The solution and the ONLY solution is to change the rules of the game to eliminate draws. All games to have a winner and loser. PERIOD.
This is very easy to do. Open your mind to it and it will be done.
If you are not going to change the rules then stop complaining. The players play the rules.
If Crapnik wins the tournament like this i`m taking next flight to Denmark and gonna personaly shoot “the world champion” in the head!!!
>>Every day it is the same thing.
>>Day after day.
>>Blog after Blog.
>>Everywhere I look it is the same.
>>PEOPLE HATE DRAWS.
>>and what is done about it
>>NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING.
>>The solution and the ONLY >>solution is to change the rules >>of the game to eliminate draws. >>All games to have a winner and >>loser. PERIOD.
as i told – Mtel Master`s is the right pattern!!!
If Crapnik wins the tournament like this i`m taking next flight to Denmark and gonna personaly shoot “the world champion” in the head!!!
To Denmark? I hope you haven’t booked your flight yet…
Lots of Kramnik haters around.
Ponomariov had white. He knew that if he plays e4, he would be confronted with Petroff. He did not have the guts to play something more lively.
And now some anonymous losers blame Kramnik. This is a game between two, you loser Kramnik haters.
Try playing against Kramnik and you’ll get to know how low your IQ is.
“Great big hurray for the amazing and attractive new world champion!!! Insomnia is now completely cured: just watch Kramnik playing chess.”
Kramnik is not the new world champion. He has been a world champion since he beat great KASPAROV back in 2000 withour losing a single game. After that he defended his title against Leko. And then he beat TOPALOV TWICE. Once in classical games, and then in rapid games.
The only player who was on a par with him in match play was LEKO. Kasparov and Topalov was no match for him. This is a reality based on facts.
Well, a draw is a draw, the rules allow that.
I think better rules would be:
win 1.5 points
draw 0.5 points
lose 0 p.
GM Susan Polgar…I admire you for your respect of players and the game of chess. However…on a lark…I decided to check something. I looked in my admittedly old Chessbase Reference 2004 database and I found this.
[Event “San Francisco”]
[Site “San Francisco”]
[Date “1991.??.??”]
[Round “5”]
[White “Tal, Mihail”]
[Black “Polgar, Zsuzsa”]
[Result “1/2-1/2”]
[ECO “D28”]
[WhiteElo “2570”]
[BlackElo “2510”]
[PlyCount “30”]
[EventDate “1991.03.??”]
[EventType “tourn”]
[EventRounds “11”]
[EventCountry “USA”]
[EventCategory “12”]
[Source “ChessBase”]
1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 Nf6 4. Bxc4 e6 5. d4 a6 6. Qe2 c5 7. O-O b5 8. Bd3 cxd4 9. exd4 Be7 10. a4 bxa4 11. Nc3 O-O 12. Nxa4 Nc6 13. Rd1 Nb4 14. Bc4 Bb7 15. Ne5 Bd5 1/2-1/2
Is this game accurate or is this a mistake? If it’s not a mistake…can you explain this? I’m just curious when I found this so I’d like to know the background on it.
Thanks.
some of you might not know but a draw is a common result in chess. even if you make rules to avoid draws, they will still happen. take a look at the results of the sofia tournament in 2006, someone repeatedly suggests as an example for better rules: bacrot played ten games drawing seven. seems to work quite well! and lets take a look at the results of corus round five: first impression: four draws, three victories, second impression: three of the draws came after mostly 21 moves, the karjakin game, the aronian game and the kramnik game. but all the people are complaining about kramnik. i would like to see more open victories with spectacular gambits but unfourtenately chess has developed into that direction. just to blame kramnik for that is oversimplistic. for me the main reasons for that are increased knowledge about chess (there are openings developed until twentieth move) and the use of computers for analyzing and teaching. but it’s easier to make kramnik responsible for that, isn’t it?
Here we r discussing not the drawing itself but the FAST drawing! I don`t see anything bad if the game ends tied, but if it ends in less then 20 moves it`s simply waste of time and money…
Mtel Masters is the pattern of the tournaments. I don`t say it`s the best tournament, just the rules have to change in order somehow to restrict chessmasters to laght at us…
Why blame kramnik?
He has black – and black role is to equalize and he did the job. White is the one who should fight for the win.
When Kramnik feels he has a good position he always fights for the win (nobody complained about his game against navara); but people tend to forget this and are much more attracted towards tactical games rather than deep positional play that Kramnik plays.
“Is this game accurate or is this a mistake? If it’s not a mistake…can you explain this? I’m just curious when I found this so I’d like to know the background on it.”
Susan used to be a very subtle hypocrite. But you have busted her big time.
“”Is this game accurate or is this a mistake? If it’s not a mistake…can you explain this? I’m just curious when I found this so I’d like to know the background on it.”
Susan used to be a very subtle hypocrite. But you have busted her big time. “
How can you call someone like Susan who devoted her life to promoting chess as a hypocrite?
One of my favorite quotes is from Warren Buffet, and I paraphrase, “I’m 100% against giving stock options to CEOs, but as long as they’re legal, I’ll certianly take advantage of them.”
It is hypocritical to condemn quick draws when one has accepted them oneself. Surely you can’t argue with that, can you?
I agree with what Anonymous said in one of her earlier posts.
“It is hypocritical to condemn quick draws when one has accepted them oneself. Surely you can’t argue with that, can you? “
She did not condemn anything. She was a little bit unlucky to post two games closely. One of them being fought until the end, the other one a 21 move draw. You can’t call her hypocrite just because she is unlucky.
“One of my favorite quotes is from Warren Buffet, and I paraphrase, “I’m 100% against giving stock options to CEOs, but as long as they’re legal, I’ll certianly take advantage of them”
Jerry
Are you trying to say Susan has taken advantage of Tal by not beating him ?
She is a very nice person, our chess saviour, and has 2700+ rating. If she would play in this tournament, she would probably win it. But not beat Topalov, I think she has some special feeling for him.
Tal was very special to me. He treated me with the highest level of respect even when I was just a young teenage girl. He was truly a special World Champion.
Best wishes,
Susan Polgar
http://www.PolgarChess.com
She has in the past agressively criticised players for taking quick draws. I did not mean that this post was hypocrisy. Look back over the last month or two of posts on this blog.
Luck has nothing to do with it.
She chose the quick draw.
Quick draws deprive the millions of chess fans of what they want to see.
Of course I respect her as a chess player; she’s gifted and has had truly great achievements.
Nevertheless this is hypocrisy.
“Are you trying to say Susan has taken advantage of Tal by not beating him ?”
No, I was making the point in general that sometimes a person can debate whether something is good or bad, while partaking in the activity.
I can’t speak for her, but I personally think getting rid of draws would be great. But as long as draws are part of the game I certianly have no problem drawing if it benefits me.
“Of course I respect her as a chess player; she’s gifted and has had truly great achievements.
Nevertheless this is hypocrisy. “
Now I get your point. Yeah maybe she is. Sad.
Jerry,
Now you are calling Susan an “opportunist”. Very sad.
I suppose only you are allowed to respect GM Polgar’s accomplishments?
Sad? Can’t you think of anything to say?
Perhaps you chould actually try to defend against the hypocrisy accusation using evidence or reason rather than petty childish remarks.
“Perhaps you chould actually try to defend against the hypocrisy accusation using evidence or reason rather than petty childish remarks. “
I can’t because there is no evidence against it. The only evidence I saw is the game against Tal. If I had a chess database from ChessBase then I would be able to count the number of quick draws played and divide this number by the total games played by her. And I would do the same analysis for other players including Karpov, Kasparov, Kramnik, Fischer etc. And I would compare the numbers to figure out if Susan is the really a hypocrite or not. What a wonderful program that Mega Database is. And what a wonderful company that chessbase is. They also have very nice engines. They are almost as devoted to promoting chess as Susan.
Meatheads all.
The position is equal. Black simply plays N7f6 and the Isolani blockade is on and nothing white can do about it. White also has the d4 pawn well protected. White *has* no other weakness, and neither does black.
A draw in this position is the most likely and a completely reasonable outcome.
Quit your table-pounding antics and actually look at the position instead of whining about the result.
Topalov wore the lapel band in support of Bulgarian nurses in the Libyan jail while Kramnik demonstated yet again his disregard for chess fans by making a quick draw.
>> When Kramnik feels he has a good position he always fights for the win
And when he is in the starting position with Black he does not have a good position. Ok, understood now 🙂
>> If I had a chess database from ChessBase then I would be able to count the number of quick draws played and divide this number by the total games played by her.
You do not have a ChessBase database because it costs a lot of money. That’s what ChessBase is for – $$$$$$$$$$.
Che$$Ba$e
“You do not have a ChessBase database because it costs a lot of money. That’s what ChessBase is for – $$$$$$$$$$.”
They ofcourse have to make money out of chess. They are smart people who were able to turn selling chess software into a sound business. Without being able to make money, nobody would seriously devote his/her time developing chess programs. It is just because chessbase that we have such strong programs who aids all of us (including Susan and all other top GMs) analyzing positions. They have set an example for the rest like Mr. Rajlich (Rybka). Without them chess would not advance as fast.
Comparing ChessBase to Rajlich is like comparing Bill Gates to Linus Torvalds. Greediness for money against love for chess.
SHAME AGAIN FOR YOUR “NEW”/”OLD”? WC. It’s incredibly for me that someone can love this chess style.
I feel pity for the Kramnik fans. They continue to support him although he again and again demonstrates with his play that he doesn’t care a damn for chess fans.
“Comparing ChessBase to Rajlich is like comparing Bill Gates to Linus Torvalds. Greediness for money against love for chess.”
Hahaha. Compeletely wrong analogy.
Chessbase is not a software company. Rajlich is making money out of his program, Rybka is NOT for free. Linus Torvalds has a made a fortune from TransMeta stock options by serving for their PR campaign.
Richard Stallman is the guy behind open source software revolution. He is the most proficient software architect in the world. Both gcc and emacs are among the best programs that have ever been designed.
>> Hahaha. Compeletely wrong analogy.
No, the analogy is completely right. Linus made money taking them from the rich guys at the stock market and not taking them from every poor guy who wants to use a computer.
Go to:
http://chesspro.ru/_events/2007/weik10.html
for a very true photo of Kramnik making a draw with Ponomarev
With reference to some idiot higher up, Susan is not 2700+: she is about 2540 and were she to play in this tournament would be a hot favourite to finish last. You are thinking of her sister Judit, who is 2700+ and would probably finish between fourth and eighth.
If White doesn’t want to play there’s not always so much you can do. Topalov played more moves against Tiviakov, sure, but can anyone really say the game was more interesting? It’s a measure of how the other players fear Kramnik that he’s run into three Whites determined to make a draw. And actually for people who know anything about this line of the Meran this game was quite interesting.
Why does this blog attract quite such a low standard of comment, I wonder? I suspect it’s too easy to post anonymously and probably many of the above idiots are in fact the same idiot. If I were you, Susan, I’d consider introducing a registration procedure.
The above idiotic comment is anonymous too.
Anonymous, yes – I thought it made my point better – but not, I think, idiotic.
If you like it better, you may call me Percy.
ikThe position before the first move is equal too. Why not have a draw then instead of playing 19 pointless moves?
There was so much material on the board that a win or loss was still likely.
And you can’t compare her to others as she has distanced herself from them by criticising them for it.
One quick draw is enough to make her a hypocrite.
It’s not “pointless” it’s chess.
Elementary respect?
Isn’t respect for chess itself more elementary than respect for Tal?
Tal chose to be a chess player so he should play chess.
Whatever about her views being different; she can’t criticise someone for doing what she did.
If what you say about Ponomariov-Kramnik is accurate (vague though it is), then that should form the basis of the ensuing game.
Being sportsmen they should at least try.
Rubbish. Sportsmen are there to do the best they can to win the tournament. You are confusing sportsmen and clowns, whose duty is indeed to entertain the gallery.
There comes a point in any chess game where to continue it is futile. You and I stop playing when each side has only a rook, sure if we play long enough someone will leave their rook en prise, but we don’t find it interesting. 2750 players have different standards, but it’s the same principle.
We will have to disagree about the Tal episode. I would not place ‘respect for chess itself’ above respect for a great man ike Tal, no. I find the notion bizarre. Bet you think Larry Holmes should have tried to kill Ali as well.
Percy
Tal was one of the greatest and most imaginative players ever.
But Tal was a chess player.
If you don’t respect chess then how can you respect Tal?
I don’t think you can sum up a game where only a knight and a bishop have been exchanged with two pawns gone from both sides by saying that it’s a draw because of the e-file.
This is not more equal than the starting position-(isolated pawn, bishop pair, etc.)
You don’t really believe that all these draws are because the positions are equal?
Some of them are, some of them aren’t. In this fifth round I think they were all draws because the play had genuinely become very drawish. Pono-Kramnik definitely was because the position has become very equal and drawish. I don’t suppose Kramnik necessarily wanted that – the Meran’s a very sharp opening if White wants it to be – but I don’t suppose he objected hugely either. Karjakin-Motylev – obviously about to simplify to a completely drawn ending. Aronian-Carlsen – again there’s going to be simplification on the d-file. The ones so far that spring to mind that could sensibly be criticised were Navara-Svidler and Svidler-Pono; in both cases it seemed to me Black was a bit unambitious. But of course these players see infinitely more than me; this is merely an uninformed impression.
I find your question about Tal bizarre. It seems to boil down to ‘how one can respect a fellow human being if one doesn’t respect chess?’. In any case, I don’t see anything disrespectful to the game in agreeing that one is not going to play seriously that day because one player is sick. If anything I would find the opposite attitude disrespectful of the game.
Percy
We don’t just respect Tal as a human being. I didn’t personally know him, but his chess games show that he was a genius and thus deserving of respect as a result of chess.
It is through chess that I respect him so respect for chess is necessary but not sufficient for respect for Tal, and hence more elementary. I did not say “important”, I said “elementary”.
Though the position may be roughly equal, the aspects I mentioned give them something to think about at least.
Chess is an art and a sport and a science.
I would not draw a rook and pawn endgame. I would rather lose and learn something. It is not futile to continue if one can make a move with an aim (also rook & pawn are generally the most difficult endgames)
It is not about winning, it is about the process of playing for me.
Why else would someone invest so much effort into it?
And if it is equal, Kramnik, being world champion should win, with there being so much material on the board.
Who said anything about rook and pawns? I said rook against rook. Sooner or later, playing on becomes futile. It just happens a lot sooner in the game for these players than you.
If the world champion could beat the world number eight from every equal position, the game would not be very interesting.
Percy
The world champion is the world champion for a reason. Obviously he should be the best, and should, therefore, be generally able to beat anyone from an equal position with seven pieces and six pawns.
This is not “every equal position”; almost all of the material is still on the board, and it appears to be a very dynamic and complicated position. I’m sure if they had played on someone would have got an advantage.
The fact is that he doesn’t want to and he didn’t try. He’s afraid to lose.
I’m more than capable of acting up and offering a draw after 19 moves, but I don’t because I like chess.
King Rook vs King Rook is an obvious draw. Why would someone leave a rook en-prise?
‘I’m sure if they had continued someone would have obtained an advantage.’
Well, to use your own argument, Kramnik is the world champion. Can it be that his opinion on this question is worthy of more respect than yours?
Percy
So Kramnik didn’t just go for a quick draw like they usually do? He might be the best but his attitude isn’t worthy of his brilliance. Read the posts at the top of this page. As I said, he’s afraid to lose.
There are two possibilities. One of them is Kramnik is too afraid to play the game properly.
The other is that he thinks his tournament interests are best served by agreeing a draw in this position.
I can see that you want very much to believe the first possibility and that no argument will persuade you, not even one based on the courage Kramnik has always shown at critical moments throughout his career. Good luck to you. Just remember that you are telling us something about yourself, not about Kramnik.
Percy
>> If they were to produce a draw from this they would both have to play accurately, but you think that would be “futile”, whereas I would have liked to see it and I am sure many others would have too.
I would like to see the final result too. Either change tournament rules or ban players like Kramnik from tournaments.
“So TransMeta enriched herself on the expense of poor guys and Linus enriched himself on the expense of TransMeta. That’s a Robin Hood story. Nice for Linus, bad for TransMeta (and for ChessBase). “
Nope, you got it wrong again. Robin Hood takes from the rich, and gives back to poor. Linus spent all the money for himself and family.
What’s inside your skull ? A baked potato ?
Eh? When did I insult you – tempting although I can assure you it is?
You are now lapsing again into your former error of failing to distinguish between sportsmen and clowns. Sportsmen are there to win the event they play in. Clowns are there to entertain you.
I think Kramnik’s judgment is that his chances to win the event are best served by agreeing a draw here. You, on the other hand, despite all the evidence, think that he’s too scared to play. I have agreed not to make further attempts to convert you from that view.
Instead of whinging, why not focus on trying to enjoy the grandiose struggle Kramnik and Anand are presently engaged in?
Percy
Being scared to play and being beneficial for him to draw are the same thing.
Your arguments against everything else have gradually dissipated and now you are arguing in favour of quick draws.
“Idiot” is a personal insult though at the time it was not directed at me.
Kramnik’s game was good just now. Wouldn’t it be great if he played more often?
I have to get back to work now.
Hospitals don’t run themselves 😉
I’m sorry, but I think posting that Susan is 2700+ and would win this tournament IS idiotic, if nothing else in the true Greek sense of being utterly detached from reality.
‘Being too scared to play’ and ‘calculating that the potential reward in terms of points on the expenditure of energy involved in playing this position on is not adequate’ are not the same thing. If you can’t see the difference, that’s your problem.
As a matter of interest, have you ever tried playing in a long tournament where every opponent is of about your own strength, while suffering from a debilitating illness?
Do you consider that Lance Armstrong is a scared-to-win-weenie because he lets the flat stages go by without striving to win them?
Percy