There have been a number of debates about the talent levels of Carlsen, Karjakin and in America Nakamura. Of course a number of other names such as Vachier-Lagrave of France (2637), Yuriy Kuzubov of Ukraine (2606), Ian Nepomniachtchi of Russia (2600), Ivan Popov of Russia (2595), Fabiana Caruana (2600+), Maxim Rodshtein of Israel (2614), Hao Wang of China (2665), etc., are also very talented and can all go very far in their careers.
Carlsen is expected to be in the top 5 in the world by the next rating list on April 1. However, some people feel that Carlsen is not as talented as Karjakin or Nakamura but he is unfairly favored by the organizers. What do you think? Who will be the best from this group of extremely talented young players?
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
I would think Carlsen’s ELO and recent performance speaks for itself, no?
People are just jealous of Carlsen’s success. Nakamura isn’t in the same category.
Though I think many are indeed jealous of Carlsen, I admit that it would be very interesting to see the three of them in a tournament together. All of them are very talented, but Carlsen’s intense will to win and staggering improvement in such a short time seems to be what separates him from the rest. We already saw a Nakamura-Karjakin match. Perhaps we can put this argument to rest if Carlsen would accept a match from either Karjakin or Nakamura.
I think there is favoritism on the part of Carlsen especially by Kramnik and J. Polgar who sacrificed their own chances at Corus 2008 so that Carlsen could have the top spot. Now Topalov and Aronian are doing the same thing in Linares 2008. Only Anand does not seem to be on Carlsen’s payroll. Unfortunately, when the time comes that the good will runs out, Carlsen’s rating will finally reflect the real quality of his talent.
Nakamura is strong by US standards, but he has consistently performed poorly against the world’s top players.
Karjakin is obviously closer to Carlsen’s level, but he just wins games; whereas Carlsen wins games with brilliancies, against top players, in a wide variety of circumstances.
Carlsen is always impressive, tournament after tournament and the famous fight again Aronian is completely amazing.
I don’t know what people expect, he never loose versus a girl, not the same for Nakamura lol.
Karjakin is very good, but plays like Leko.
I read somewhere that Nakamura doesn’t study the classics. He’s just interested in modern games.
Well, that may make him a strong player nevertheless, but he will never reach the top this way…
But everybody can prove his/her ability in chess. Carlsen is doing it right now…
Wow. The Carlsen Conspiracy includes Polgar, Aronian, Kramnik AND Topalov? Who knew! Finally, Kramnik and Topalov sharing the love. That’s nice to see 🙂
its just amazing to see people talk about nakamura in the same breathe as carlsen and karjakin. he is like 3 years older and 100 points lower. compare him to radja(born the same year) and its obvious that he cant hang. and to say that carlsen is not as talanted as nakamura is just ridiculous; one is top 5(!!) the other has not even been close to 2700.
Carlsen was favoured by the Organisers more than any other youngster.
Carlsen may be fearless right now, but for a year when he was playing with elite he was not like this. That’s because his fear has developed over the period of year to be a fearless opponent.
You have to provide similar opportunites just like carlsen to other youngsters like Karjakin and nakamura and after a period of couple of years how these youngsters is turning up.
Nakamura in same league as other two, give me a break.
it’s plain ridiculous that the discussion is concentrated on “young talents”. Age is no longer a big promise. Lagno was in top 5 among women at age 14 (or something like that), Pono won WC and came second in Linares at 18 (Carlsens has yet to attain this level) and so on.
how many of those who are now playing in Linares were not playing in Corus? One. Same picture will be seen in Dortmund, Moscow… It’s a club. Some do get admitted, others do not. Grischuk, Akopian have been above 2700 for many years and we hardly saw them in top competitions. Kamski won the WC and he was not invited in any of big torneys this year (if you believe his father). Go figure.
Dortmund has a qualifier spot. Bologan won, Naidich won, Alekseev came second (were they invited anywhere afterwards btw?). Senond test is KO WCs where we often see unexpected winners.
This just shows that the difference in strength between the “elite” and others is not that significant. But because one group only plays agains each other and the orther is kept in second-tier opens, the elite is just never changes.
looks like Anand is the only one who can keep a lid on Carlsen, still- that is. you’re joking about the others, right?
There is no doubt that Carlsen gets more opportunities, which in turn makes it possible for him to develop his talent. He may end up the strongest of the young players, whether or not he started as one.
As for fairness – it did not start fairly, but if at the end Carlsen does become the strongest, everybody will assume that he indeed had the strongest potential.
Nak is more talented than Carlsen.
Nakamura would win a 10 game match 6-4.
Carlsen doesn’t even play in the greatest country in the world. The good old US of A.
Carlsen doesn’t play in the big US of A simply because in chess the “big” US of A is very, very small…
Which event in the US of A should Carlsen come for… and tell him he has to bring his own plastic set and clock BTW.
Carlsen is simply he best !
Philippe
Webmaster of Chess & Strategy
I may as well drop in my 2 pennies’ worth… First of all, the question is very unfairly posed. Susan has posts almost every week regarding the difficulties in getting sponsors for chess, the importance of wise financial management, or whether chess is a spectator sport, for that matter.
Now, apparently there is a player who raised the attention toward chess by his presence: his brilliant games despite his young age.
Why should any tournament organizer not invite him? He brings spectators, where there are spectators, it is easier to get sponsors etc.
Regarding other great talents, yes, there are stars and top stars in a professional sport – if it’s bitter to be a star, do everything you can to be a top star – in chess, you best start by obtaining 2750+ ratings. Bringing up the illusion of communism with all equal resources in the world of free markets just does not lead anywhere.
Otherwise, if we’re in the mood we can discuss those special/unfair circumstances that led Judit Polgar to obtain a 2700+ rating for quite a long time. Try to fool ourselves that it was not her talent and great management behind her.
I don’t think we yet know how good Nakamura will be. You need to play the best to become the best and he has not yet been given that opportunity. As for his “poor” results against top players, think back to how well Bobby Fischer fared initially against the top Soviets, or Kasparov against Karpov in their early games. Go Smallville!
Well, Kasparov, Kramnik and Anand (and obviously Susan Polgar:) unanimously think that Carlsen is the most talented. Who seriously dares to doubt them even if you are a fan of Nakamura or Karjakin? Of course, with unpredictable FIDE politics involved, Carlsen might have to wait quite a while until he gets his shot at the tiltle.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=101612
three talented players for sure. Carlson has been given the oportunities and has shown that he belongs. Nakmura and Karjakin have had less opportunity so we don’t know if they can hang with the likes of Carlson. Personally I think they all can be in the top 10, and wil be some day.
three talented players for sure. Carlson has been given the oportunities and has shown that he belongs. Nakmura and Karjakin have had less opportunity so we don’t know if they can hang with the likes of Carlson. Personally I think they all can be in the top 10, and wil be some day.
I hope they seed Carlsen right into the World Championships like they did with Karpov in the Kasparov matches.
Yes, this would be unfair but chess would have a champion that looks like Brad Pitt instead of some braniac egg head – which would be great for marketing and sponsorship.
Xantum: You could at least spell his name correct.
It’s not like it’s very hard, like Nepomniachtchi….
Carlsen and Karjakin and Nakamura are all very bright, articulate young men who are very good chess players. I think it is absolutely ridiculous on the part of the organizers or anyone else to judge their talent levels or anything specific about them. Each one of them has proven their point, that they can play chess better than 99 % of the youth population so therefore each of them should be given EQUAL chances to prove themselves in international tournaments. The only one of them who has not been given impartial treatment is Nakamura which it is obvious it is because he is from the United States.
Nakamura has more natural talent than Carlsen? Possibly, but you are ignoring one other player. Me. If I had started when I was younger, and had played the world’s elite, then I would be the top player in the world. Why don’t you guys talk about me? You’re all jealous!
after all………i remember Nakamura making mince meat out of Karjakin in match play.
Nakamura made a big mistake by refusing to play Corus B. It was a big insult to the organizer and he’s not good enough to be in group A. Winning random open tournaments against 2500 GMs won’t get you a spot with the elite. On top of that, he refused training help from multiple people. He needs to be around 2730-2740 to be taken seriously. Carlsen is by far superior right now.
Karjakin and Carlsen are younger and they improved a lot more in the past year. Nakamura slowed down and Caruana and Nepomniatchi will soon pass him too.
Come on guys. Nakamura has more talent in his little pinky than Carlsen and Karjakin together, in bullet. Let’s have a 10 game bullet game match and see who’s the real man. So what if Nakamura wants to have the bad boy image. It worked for Bobby.
so pathetically moronic………why should nakamura take training from anyone. he is probably better than they are. besides when u work most of ur life to be so good and u did it all on your own….unlike karjakin or carlsen who were spoonfed….why should u even insinuate taking lessons from anyone. they are most likely just wanted to get inside of your mind.
i got $50,000 us dollars if u want to pit nakamura against carlsen. let’s do it. im tired of the controversy.
A badboy-image worked for Fisher, but it doesn’t seem to work for Nakamura. Obviously he isn’t good enough to be invited to the best tournaments without proving himself in the second best tournaments first. If he refuses to play those, he has only himself to blame when he isn’t invited to the best.
Who is more talented is hard to say because how does one measure or judge talent? It is quite subjective – but in chess we can at least look at objective results. Carlsen has won games against top GMs in big tournaments. Karjakin is close but hasn’t had the same results of late (past 2-3 years) like Magnus.
Nakamura is undoubtedly tremendously able but the reality is that to get better, he needs to play with tougher competition and to work with top players – if he claims that he can’t get invitations or can’t find people he trusts – he’ll have to figure something out – Either play the super tough opens like Aeroflot where even the high 2600s get beaten down or do the Corus C and B route and win your way up. He has to put together a team – a Team Nakamura which includes someone other than his dad and some pals from his school days – someone who is a 2500+ second who can help with his preparation – even Anand has help and he has to be among the most “gifted and talented” players ever. It is really up to him to decide and to decide soon – every passing year, Carlsen is stronger. So is Karjakin and others.
Some here note that this is very exclusive club, one that is very hard to get into, but certainly not impossible – look at how long it took Kramnik, Topalov and Anand and they made it. He just has to play and play well – it is not an easy path, one with a lot of hard work and potential disappoointment. Even the great Fischer had to cultivate his abilities – between 1962-1967 he was probably among the top 3 or 4 players but at times would still lose focus and get stuck in the qualifying stages. When he came back in 1969 he had all of the parts: deep opening prep, solid middle game and end game, deep understanding of his main rivals and of course that ability to really work and concentrate and press for victory. It is really up to him to decide if he wants to put in the time, effort and work to be a real challenger for the WCC or be content with being just another really good player.
It isn’t just a matter of ELO points – several of the 2700 club realize that they just don’t have the interest and raw desire to be WCC, but it is good life for them and they play on.
Magnus is the best. Period. Just look at what he’s been doing lately, and if you still doubt it compare his games to the games of the others. Naka and Karjakin are very good, but Magnus is better.
Nakamura obviously has more raw talent than the whole bunch but he is affected by the Fischer syndrome wanting to do it alone.
Nakamura needs to stop wasting his time playing the US swisses and move to Europe.
Carlsen is way ahead of Nakamura… Much natural, raw talent and hard-working as well..
People are just jealous. He is favored by organizers because of his fighting chess. He has won many fans over with his play.
I believe Paul Morphy is the greatest of all times!
there is no such thing as raw talent. the become the best when they work harder than any one esle. naka could be at the top but he is too much of a baby for organisers to want to invite him. they rather carlsen a well mature respectful person than a cours b declining nakamura.
“People are just jealous”
That is just a plain stupid accusation. What are we jealous of?? In general those who recognize the lack of talen in Carlsen, generally acknowledge the talen in Karjakin. Now, if we are just jealous folks, we would be jealous of Karjakin too.
BTW, I am not a Russian.
This is not a Russian vs non-Russian war.
There is more to it. Since we calin that this is a case of favouritism, perhaps GM Susan can help point out the people /organizations who are responsible for this favouratism. Lets expose the alleged “corruption” in chess.
Previous comment..
“Since we calin that this is a case of favouritism”
should read
“Since we claim that this is a case of favouritism”
and I seem to keep missing those “t”s in “talent” :((