r1r3k1/n4q1p/5Pp1/3R4/1p6/p6P/B1p3PK/2Q5 w – – 0 1
White to move. How should White proceed?
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r1r3k1/n4q1p/5Pp1/3R4/1p6/p6P/B1p3PK/2Q5 w – – 0 1
White to move. How should White proceed?
1 Qh6 c1Q
2 Qg7+ QxQ
3 Re8#
BlacK will not play c1 immediately,rather 1…QC7+,kh8,Rf8 yet still maintaining c1 threat..
Qh6 nd white win in all lines
Off the top of my head, 1.Rd8 looks plausible:
1. Rd8 Rd8 (only legal move)
2. Qh6!
And because of the uncovered pin on the black queen, I think black is forced to play either Kh8 or b3 followed by Kh8 just to guard g7 and prevent mate:
2. …..Kh8 (Rd5? 3.Bd5 Kh8 4.Bf7)
3. Bf7 Rg8 (mate otherwise)
4. Bg8 Rg8 (mate otherwise)
5. f7 a2
Without a long look, I can’t be sure this is best, but I think it absolutely critical that black find counter threats here- the rook can’t move and c1Q is surely lost after white captures at c1 since the rook still can’t move due to the threat Qa1+ (see the lines below). Continuing:
6. Qc1! Kg7 (Nb5 7.Qb2 Nc3 8.Qb4)
7. fg8Q Kg8
8. Qb2
All of the above is basically forced by the mate threats that white had, but those threats are now liquidated and the real question is this- can white win from here? White cannot take any of the pawns without doing so with check. After his 8th move, white is threatening to capture at a2 with check, so black must move the king, I think, but this will drop the b4 pawn:
8. …..Kf8
9. Qb4 and now I got really think about this problem. The lines from here are numerous and I can’t really visualize them without a lot of work.
Hi… I’m just a very average dummie player… is it alright moving rook to d8?
Thanks in advance 🙂
Hi … I’m just and average dummie player, I’d like to ask anyone if moving rook to d8, is the appropiate decision here. Thank you.
I thought I had found a brilliant forced mate. The black queen is vulnerable to a pin by the white bishop. The advanced white pawn on the f file can team up with the white queen for an attack on black’s king against which there is little black can do to stop it. Except Ke6. Bah.
1. Rd7 Qxa2
2. Qh6 Qf7
3. Rxf7 Kxf7
4. Qg7+ Ke8
5. Qe7#
Black can escape the attack:
4… Ke6
5. Qe7+ Kd5
6. Qd7+ Kc5
7. Qd2 Kb5
8. Qc1 a2
9. f7 a1=Q
10. Qxa1 c1=Q {big advantage to black}
1. Rd8+ Rxd8
2. Qh6 Kh8 {black looks to be in trouble, but not really}
3. Bxf7 Rg8
4. Bxg8 Rxg8
5. f7 a2
6. f8=Q a1=Q
7. Qf4 Nb5
8. Qxb4 c1=Q
9. Qxc1 Qxc1
10. Qxb5 -+
Other possibilities for white would appear to have the same result: Black eventually gets another queen, both sides have two non-isolated pawns, so a draw would be reasonable.
Ok, I think I have some clarity now on the line from my first comment:
1. Rd8 Rd8
2. Qh6 Kh8
3. Bf7 Rg8
4. Bg8 Rg8
5. f7 a2
6. Qc1 Kg7
7. fg8Q Kg8
8. Qb2 Kf8
9. Qb4 Kf7!
The other squares are going to either drop the knight with check or get black mated on the h-file or back rank. The a3 square plays a critical role when combined with the threat of Qf8#: [9. …Kg7 10.Qe7 Kg8 (or 10. …Kh8 11.Qf8#);(or 10. ….Kh6 11.Qf8! Kg5 {or 11. …Kh5 12.g4! Kg5 13.Kg3!+-} 12.h4! Kh4 13.Qf4 Kh5 14.Kh3 g5 15.Qf7 Kh6 16.Qf6 Kh5 17.g4# 11.Qa3! Kg7 (if 11. …Kh8 12.Qf8 is mate) 12.Qa7 and the black queen will return to either b2 or c1/a1 to hold up the pawns long enough for the white king to assist]; or [9. …Kg8/e8 10.Qb8 Kmove 11.Qxa7 with check followed by a return to guard a1 and c1]. With 9. …Kf7, black has gotten his king off that back rank and implicitly protected the knight- white can’t play 10.Qb7 followed by 11.Qxa7. White must continue to hold up the two black passed pawns and attempt to bring the king into play. Black must be careful not to allow white to capture either the knight or either of the pawns with check. So, what is the absolute best square for the white queen, and should white play to bring the king over to the queen side to win the pawns, or should white attempt to hold the queenside with the queen and try pushing the king side pawns? Of the squares for the queen, my initial thinking is that I prefer putting her on a3:
10.Qa3 Kf6 (Ke8 ok too, I think)
11.Kg1 Nc6 (any better move?)
12.Kf1 Nd4
And now it is important to understand black’s defense here. The knight is now guarding the c2 pawn, so the king cannot capture it. Indeed, I don’t think the king can approach at all- black is also threatening to put the knight on b3 guarding both squares a1 and c1. The best I can see here is to put the queen now on c3 or f8, but the knight can’t be taken at d4 anyway as long as black doesn’t allow white to do so with check. So, I think that when the knight reaches d4, black probably has a draw. So, let’s back up to white’s 11th move and move the queen to b2 with check:
11.Qb2 Ke7!
Of course, Ke6 and Kf7 lose to 12.Qxa2 with check, Kf5 loses to Qxc2 with check. Finally, Kg5 leads to mate or loss of the knight with check: [11. …Kg5?? 12.Qe5! Kh6 13.Qe3! Kg7 (or 13. …Kh5 14.g4 Kh4 15.Qh6#; or 13. …g5 14.Qc3!+- check it out!) 14.Qa7 with check and a win for white]. So, now what for white? The queen by herself can’t now force the black king onto the losing squares, if white attempt to bring the king up the board towards h7 and g6 or over to d2, black just plays Nc6 and Nd4 as before to threaten Nb3. The best I think of is to directly attack the black king- in other words, let black put the knight on b3, but go for mate instead:
12.Kg3 Nc6 (better move?)
13.Kf4 Nd4 (again, better move?)
14.Ke5 Nb3
Forced or not? I am pretty sure checking from c6 with the knight loses to Kd5, but am far less sure what the effect of 14. …Ne2 is without spending another hour looking at it- it is hideously complicated. Maybe I will look at it later. Right now I want to focus on 14. …Nb3 with the time I have left:
15.Qa3 Kd7 (sufficient I think)
16.Qd6 Kc8!
Pretty sure 16. …Ke8 is a mate for white: [16. …Ke8 17.Ke6! Nc5/d4 18.Qxc5/d4+- with the threats of Qe7 and Qh8 mate allowing white the time to gather up the black pawns.] Continued in next comment:
17.Qc6 Kb8! (Kd8?? 18.Kd6+-)
18.Qb6 Ka8 (Kc8 ok too)
And white’s queen can’t walk over the a5 and c5 squares. I just don’t see a way to make progress for white. He can take at b3, of course, but then white will queen the a-pawn with check, and if white plays to capture at a2 first (something black doesn’t have to allow), then
Continued from previous comment:
19.Qa6 Kb8
20.Qa2 c1Q
21.Qb3 Kc7 I am left with another position that I can’t tell is winnable or not, though my instincts tell me it isn’t- black just needs to not allow the exchange of the queens. I will need even more time to think about it.
1.Qh6 forces mate. The main threat is Rd8+ followed by Qg7 mate.
If Black tries Qxf6, then Rd8 is mate. If Black tries something like Rf8, then 2.Rd7 followed by Qg7 mate.
1.Qh6 forces mate. The main threat is Rd8+ followed by Qg7 mate.
If Black tries Qxf6, then Rd8 is mate. If Black tries something like Rf8, then 2.Rd7 followed by Qg7 mate.
1.Rd8+ RxRd8 2.Qh6 and Qg7 cannot be stopped thanks to the pinned queen
This one I thought was straightforward:
Re8+ (to gain time and pin the queen)
Rxe8
Qh6 (threaten mate on g7)
Kh8 (Unpinning the queen, other moves result in Qg7#)
Bxf7 (Renewing the threat of Qg7#)
Rg8 (Stopping the threat)
Bxg8 (Renewing the threat again)
Rxg8 (Stopping the threat)
f7 (Attacking the rook, if Rg7 f8=Q+ Rg8 Qg7#, if Rf8 just Qxf8#)
c1=Q
fxg8=Q+
Kxg8
Qxc1 +-
This leaves queen and two pawns vs. knight and 4 pawns, two of them passed however the queen is on top of them so this is winning.
So my line is:
1. Re8+ Rxe8 2. Qh6 Kh8 3. Bxf7 Rg8 4. Bxg8 Rxg8 5. f7 c1=Q 6. fxg8=Q+ Kxg8 7. Qxc1
Hopefully the computer agrees with me (it would be a very rare event).
1. Td8+ and 2.Qh6 wins!
Lorfa, 5… a3-a2 would put a kink in your attack. White would then bring his queen back to c1 to prevent one of the pawns from being promoted to queen. But, from then on, white is stuck and one of the pawns will succeed in becoming a queen. White can’t stop it from happening.
@yancy ward. Your solution seems to be good except after 5) ……a2, whites best move would have been 6) pf8-Q….if rxf8, 7) Qh6xf8#
If black promotes either of his pawns, white moves Qh6-g7##
If 5) ….rg7, 6) pf8-Q+, rg8, 7) Qh6-g7##
After Craig’s 1.Rd7
if 1….Qxa2 2.Rg7+
if then 2….Kh8 3.Qh6
if 2….Kf8 3.Qh6
say 3….Ke8 4.Qe3+
or say 3….c1(Q) 4.Qxh7
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Anonymous,
No, your suggestion is foiled by black’s queening the a-pawn instead who guards g7. From the top:
1. Rd8 Rd8
2. Qh6 Kh8
3. Bf7 Rg8
4. Bg8 Rg8
5. f7 a2
And you suggested 6.f8Q, but this fails to win, I am pretty sure:
6. f8Q? a1Q! (guards g7, now)
And now white is the one trying to find a draw. I think the easiest of those is to just threaten the h-pawn with either Qe7 or Qf7.
Also, those of you suggesting 1.Qh6, black replies with Qc7 with check, and that line just seems lost to me for white.
Yancey Ward,
After
1. Qh6 Qc7+
2. b3
Black is out of checks. What’s his defense?
One Brow:
1. Qh6 Qc7
2. g3 Kh8!
Removes the discovered check threat immediately, as an anonymous commenter above mentioned. Now, how can white proceed? Black has both g7 and h7 well guarded, and white’s f-pawn’s queening square is also well covered by black. If white has a better continuation than Rc5, you need to find it because I am out of ideas:
3. Rc5 Qb7 (c1Q should work too)
4. Bd5
If 4.f7, then Qe7 will win. Continuing:
4. …..Rc6 (or Nc6)
5. Rc6 Nc6
6. Bc6 Qf7
7. Ba8 Qf6
And the passed pawns are decisive for black, especially the a-pawn whose queening is covered by the black queen. The best I can see is to cover a2 with the bishop, but this loses too:
8. Be4 Qf2
9. Bg2 a2
10.Qc1 Qd4
11.Qf1 Kg7
12.Qe1 a1Q
And there are no perpetuals in this line, or in the other possible variations here in the moves above:
13.Qe7 Kh6
14.Qf8 Qg7!
15.Qf4 g5
16.Qd6 Qgf6 and black will get a third queen, or win white’s.
Anonymous, your 1. Rd7 Qxa2 2.Rg7+ variation works really well if 2… Kf8:
1. Rd7 Qxa2
2. Rg7+ Kf8
3. Qd2 Nc6
4. Qd6+ Ke8
5. Rxh7 Rab8
6. Qd7+ Kf8
7. Qg7+ Ke8
8. Rh8+ Qg8
9. Rxg8#
However, if 2… Kh8, then white gets stumped by black’s pawn promotion prospects:
1. Rd7 Qxa2
2. Rg7+ Kh8
3. Qh6 Qg8
4. Rxg8+ Rxg8
5. Qc1 a2 {Black eventually
will promote one or more of the advanced pawns to queen and have a two rook advantage.}
What if black played 5… Rd8 rather than the seemingly useless Rab8? White still has a very nice mating sequence:
1. Rd7 Qxa2
2. Qh6 Kf8
3. Qd2 Nc6
4. Qd6+ Ke8
5. Rxh7 Rd8
6. f7+ Qxf7
7. Rh8+ Qg8 {black queen is pinned}
8. Qe6+ Kf8
9. Rxg8#
@ craig Yep.
1. Re8+ Rxe8 2. Qh6 Kh8 3. Bxf7 Rg8 4. Bxg8 Rxg8 5. f7 a2!=
This is white’s best though, everything else loses!!
This is kind of a cool draw though, one that perplexes chess engines. They tend towards a draw but can’t really get there. Whereas a human can see the draw mechanism and call it 0.00 right away!
Stuck this pos. in Fritz 11 and it went for 1.Rd8+ and played to draw.
1.Rd7 immed. went into loss eval.
So Craig J. right about Kh8.
Is there a non-computer win for white (or black!) or was it set just for analysis conversation?!
Very interesting anyway!
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