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      Home  >  Chess Improvement  >  More difficult K and P endgame

      More difficult K and P endgame

      K and P endgame, Puzzle Solving


      Kok, 1939

      White to move. Is this a win, loss, or draw for White? How should White proceed?

      8/8/1ppp4/8/1PPP4/2K5/6k1/8 w – – 0 1

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      20 Comments

      1. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 5:55 pm

        This is easy. 1. c5 wins. It’s a well known endgame.

      2. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 5:59 pm

        True, but considering where the Kings are placed, there are probably lots of other winning moves too. Might have been better to reverse the two Kings, so that there would be only one winner.

      3. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:08 pm

        Draw.

      4. jcheyne Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:14 pm

        Easy? Perhaps, but be careful. The White king on c3 makes all the difference. Were the king on c2, then, yes, 1. c5 wins: 1. c5 dxc5 2. b5 and one of the pawns slips through. With the king on c3, 1. c5 dxc5 2. b5 doesn’t work to 2. … dxd4+, so 2. bxc5 bxc5 3. dxc5 Kg3 and White cannot make progress.
        White must first move to avoid that check: 1. Kd3. Now the Black king, which was placed suspiciously just far enough away, can do no better than Kf3, and 2. c5 wins as above.

      5. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:23 pm

        Kd2 is first required before c5. Otherwise the d5 or b5 thrust after b6 or d6 x c5 will fail because c5xb4 or d4 will result in a check.

      6. Yancey Ward Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:28 pm

        Lets try the most obvious move first, as before:

        1. Kd3 and now black may want to keep white out of e4 (or not):

        1. …..d5
        2. b5 cb5 (c5 3. dc5 wins, too)
        3. c5 and white wins. So, black must play 1. …Kf3 in this line:

        1. Kd3 Kf3

        And now white can move any of the pawns or move the king:

        2. b5 cb5
        3. cb5 Kf4 (best move, I think)
        4. Kc4 Ke4
        5. Kc3 d5 and white must abandon the d-pawn and lose the game. Also, in this line:

        5. d5 Ke5 also wins for black.

        So, white can try:

        1. Kd3 Kf3
        2. c5 bc5 (dc5?? see below)
        3. dc5 if white tries bc5, black replies d5 and the white king will be forced away from the d-pawn:

        Continuing this line:

        3. …..dc5 (d5?? 4. b5! wins)
        4. bc5 Kf4 (only move?)
        5. Kd4, and this looks like a draw to me.

        At move 2 in this line, dc5 looks like a loser for black:

        1. Kd3 Kf3
        2. c5 dc5
        3. b5! c4 (what else?)
        4. Kd2!! Took me a while to find this move:

        Continuing:

        4. …..cb5 (only move)
        5. d5 and white’s pawn cannot be stopped, while his king can hold up the three black pawns long enough.

        The last of the pawn moves in the main line is:

        1. Kd3 Kf3
        2. d5 c5 (wins, I think)
        3. bc5 bc5 and black holds the opposition and forces the white king away from the c-pawn. Playing

        3. Kc3 Ke3 doesn’t save white as
        b5 and bc5 both leave black holding the opposition causing loss of the backwards white pawn.

        In summary, I think the best white can do with 1. Kd3 against accurate defense is a draw. I am out of time at the moment and have to go, but I feel like the correct line, if there is a win for white, must either be a pawn move, or a less obvious king move like Kd2. I definitely don’t like the idea of retreating the white king to c2, b2 or b3 as this just looks totally losing, even without an analysis.

      7. custard247 Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:30 pm

        Not c5 straight away because bxc d5 doesn’t work since black can capture with check. Perhaps get the pawn out of the way first?

      8. kidlat1994 Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm

        Forgot to say White wins with c5!

      9. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:43 pm

        1.kd3 kf3 2.c5 dxc5 3.b5 cxb5 d5.
        Other options 1.kd3 d5 2.b5 or 1.kd3 c5 2.dxc5 dxc5 3.bxc5 bxc5 4.ke4.
        Immediate c5 doesn’t win because 1.c5 dxc5 2.b5 cxd4+

      10. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 6:49 pm

        1. c5 does NOT win. Black gains a tempo by taking a white pawn with cheque. So, white must move his king away from blacks pawns first.

      11. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:26 pm

        Uh, c5 is not winning because after, say, c5 bxc5; d5 cxb4 is cxb4+ and Black wins. If White blunders with 1. c5, he can still recover the draw by recapturing on c5 rather than pushing for the breakthrough.

        But if White first moves the king out of the way of check, then Black king has time to move over to support the pawns to promotion after white breaks through. Keep the black pawns from making progress only by Kd2.

      12. Kevin Gong Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:26 pm

        1. c5 does not win. It is not the well-known endgame you’re thinking about. Although the pawns are in the same configuration, the fact that the white king is at c3 is problematic: 1. c5 bxc5 2. d5 cxb4+ Note that because of the placement of the white king, black takes *with check*, allowing it to then play for an easy draw by taking the last white pawn on the next move, or possibly even playing for a win (I haven’t worked it all out).

      13. IncaKing Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:39 pm

        Looks like a draw to me. Alekhine showed a very nice win on this topic – I guess it was based on a game of his against Vidmar?
        HOWEVER, in this case, the position of white’s king makes the difference and causes the draw.
        Without the white King on c3, Alekhine’s winning line was 1.c5 bc 2.d5! (or 1..dc 2.b5!) but in this case black has an intermediate check with 2…cb+ (or 2…cd+) and draws.

      14. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:49 pm

        Not so easy. If you follow the common technique starting with 1. c5, it will follow (for example) 1. … dxc5 2. b5 cxd4+. That check changes the position. I think the best White can hope for is a draw.

      15. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:50 pm

        1 c5? bxc5 2 d5? cxb4+ draw

        1 Kd3? Kf3 2 c5? bxc5 3 d5 cxd5 4 b5 c4+ 5 Kd4 c3! 6 Kxc3 Ke3 draw

        1 Kd2! only move that wins to be able to play 2 c5 or to bring the king faster near the pawns.

      16. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 7:52 pm

        1 c5 doesn’t win because the usual trick does not work with the king placed there. e.g. 1. c5 dxc5 2. b5 cxd4+ -+

        But 1 Kd2 seems to win. If black moves a pawn the white king gets in. If black moves his king then 2. c5 works as usual.

      17. Rohan Pandey Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 8:26 pm

        1.c5 d*c 2. d*c b*c 3. b*c Kf3 4. Kd4 etc. white queening c pawn.

      18. Yancey Ward Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 9:27 pm

        I agree with the commenters that advocate for Kd2. The classic breakthrough doesn’t work, as a number of them pointed out due to an untimely check. However, unless I missed something in my previous comment, Kd3 does not solve this problem. 1. Kd2!! seems to do so. It may be that Kc2 or Kb2 may also be workable, but I am too drunk (margaritas are my downfall) and tired to work it all out.

      19. Anonymous Reply
        May 3, 2010 at 11:03 pm

        I seem to remember dvoretzky saying kc2. Any expert should read his endgame Manuel vol2 four times. Any possible endgame is in there.

      20. Anonymous Reply
        May 4, 2010 at 8:26 am

        The usual trick is
        1c5. On 1..dc 2 b5 cb 3 d5 and
        the pawn d queens. Similarly on
        On 1..bc 2 d5 cb 3 b5
        and the pawn b queens.

        However, it is not correct because the
        WK is on a bad spot. Instead of 2..cb
        B answers 2..cd+ (and a similar check
        on line 2).

        Therefore, WK should first be moved to
        another spot. All these comments appear
        already in the previous comments.

        However, after WK move, Black can
        defend with the move 2..c5. Thus
        my proposal is:

        1 Kd3 c5 2 dc dc 3 bc bc 4 Ke4,
        followed by 5 Kd5, wins.

        However, it seems to me that there
        a second solution.
        Since 4 Ke3 is enough to win,
        1 Kd2 is fine (but not 1 Kc2, Kb3 or
        Kb2, since the WK could not reach d5)

        Olimat

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