An era officially ended last night. What will happen now? Do you expect to see peace in the Middle East or will we see even more violence?
Here is the story about the end. 
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
What will happen now?
Peace will never happen in the middle east.
You can not make our world any better just by simply killing people off.
It takes much more than that.
2.998 American soldiers killed in Iraq since the invasion of March 2003, according to icasualties.org, which indexes the American losses in Iraq and Afghanistan !!
Of course there won’t be “peace”. Occupation is the opposite of peace, and there will be armed resistance until the bloody occupiers get the hell out of Iraq.
acirce wrote:
“Of course there won’t be “peace”. Occupation is the opposite of peace, and there will be armed resistance until the bloody occupiers get the hell out of Iraq.”
Maybe you can arrange a “Save the Dictators” concert, along the lines of Live-Aid.
“Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.” Isaiah 9:5-7 (NIV)
One cock roach dies theres a million to take his place,they live for hate not peace….
did nuernberg proselitize the germans? has hiroshima changed the japaneses mind? will the hanging of saddam hussein will do any good?
what is the actual balance sheet of deaths and woundeds in iraq?
when will world – and especially U.S. – finally learn, that there will be no peace without peaceful thinking?
by the way – there was NO war, the U.S. have won without allies in the at least lasting 200 years of bold and brave U.S. warfare history, except the Grenada triumph, of course…
Here’s a couple of points that need to be addressed:
1) One area of Iraq is both occupied AND non-violent and it is a huge area: Kurdistan. Since the Kurds are policing their area really well, and since they have stopped virtually all terrorism in it, there’s been virtually no news from this area of the country. The press seems interested only in terrorism-related news.
2) What will happen to the Iraqis when the US Army leaves? Does the Bush-bashers care? The view that the exit of the US will result in the exit of the terrorists is belied by the terrorist leaders’ own statements. They have stated repeatedly and emphatically (so I assume they must mean it) that they are against democracy in Iraq and all Iraqis that have voted are marked for death. Since actions do speak louder than words, their killing of Iraqis – especially school teachers sends a message.
But I do wonder if stating any of this is just a waste of time. I wonder if the anti-Bush crowd even cares anymore.
P.S. I remember the Vietnam War, too. After the war brought a WHOLE LOT more killing and suffering for the Vietnamese people. I remember the callousness of the left towards that.
P.S.S. Susan has posted elsewhere on this site Paul Truong’s harrowing, first-hand account of the aftermath and his escape.
My dear vohal.
Nürmberg was at least a far better trial.
And CIA & Pentagon has lost every war since the Bay of Pigs!
vohaul wrote:
>>did nuernberg proselitize the germans? has hiroshima changed the japaneses mind?
>>>
Uh… Yeah. Germany is no longer Nazi, Japan is today a democratic, non-imperialist nation. Was this a trick question?
>>will the hanging of saddam hussein will do any good?>>
It depends on whether or not you consider justice to be a good thing. If you don’t, then no, it won’t do any good.
“Peace” can only come about one step at a time, and it is the result of hard work. Peace is created, it does not simply and magically appear. Peace – “real” peace – is the result of many factors, some of which include social justice (or at least a clear movement towards it) and the willingness to embrace diversity.
Peace will not and cannot come about through violence or the destruction of even a single human life – even when that life may have caused the suffering of others. It is more complicated than that, and requires the commitment to work in a positive and constructive way.
Not very glamorous or what the media perhaps likes to report – but nonetheless the case I think.
Dr. Rene Ochoa
Peninsula Chess Center
“isaiah 9:5-7”
Such a quote has no place outside the walls of a religous building.
People say it is wrong of others to challenge their belief. What is truly wrong is that these personal beliefs are forced disgracefully on people all over the world. Everybody has a right to choose faith and those who choose none should not have to listen to it constantly.
Surely this quote should not be imposed on those who wish to view or make comments about the political situation in the Middle East.
It is insulting that those in the real world who are involved should be considered by this quote.
Does anyone seriously think this has got to do with justice? It was a premeditated murder. It’s about U.S. imperialism setting an example – defy us and you will die. And it was about the Bush administration desperately finding something new to present as a “success” when all they have done is plunged Iraq into chaos and caused the death of about 600,000 Iraqis. It was an illegal trial in a kangaroo court and has no legitimacy whatsoever.
But resistance will go on. No justice – no peace.
Here is a beautiful poem by last years Litterature Nobel Price winner, wich sums things up.
Democracy
There’s no escape.
The big pricks are out.
They’ll fuck everything in sight.
Watch your back.
/ Harold Pinter
You’ll find more war poems on his home page:
http://www.haroldpinter.org
@anonym 12:43 – about half a million innocent people have been killed in iraq since the invasion by british and us troops. so, dear friend, whose justice and for whom? what is a george walker bush – seen in the view of such casualty numbers? in my eyes, simply a criminal, no jota better, than the vicious, now executed Saddam Hussein … but this is my humble opinion only!
Dear Vohaul,
I appreciate your “humble opinion” for it has so much to be humble for.
Does anybody care for all those people Saddam Hussein killed every day while he was in power? What about all those people who are alive because he was thrown out?
Dear Dr. Ochoa,
Thank you for your piece on peace. Your statement is very politically correct because it restricts itself to theory. But what happens when theory collides with reality?
If the US had not fought the Nazi’s and fought them with actual violence, how would the world have been then? One does not have to look far to find actual consequences of FDR’s and WSC’s decisions.
I recall from Susan Polgar’s bio that her family were death camp survivors. What do you think got them out? Ghandi style peace protests? It was organizations like the 8th. Air Force with bombs, the 3rd. Army with tanks, and 101 Airborne with guns. To put it bluntly, without the armed destruction of Hitler and all he stood for, there would be no Susan Polgar today – not as theoretical concept, but as an actual living, breathing human being. Nor would many others be alive, either.
So this is where the divide exists: theory vs. reality. One can list all of the bad stuff that is happening in Iraq right now. But how much worse will things be if the terrorists win?
To us this is just an exchange on a chess blog. To the people in Iraq, the answer to that question means their very lives.
Saddam was a visionary, a true leader that united the various factions in Iraq under one flag.
Eversince the invasion by the American forces Iraq has been one bloody hell.
How can Bush point to Iraq today & say he did it for the good of the Iraqi people ??
Dear Acirce,
How many people did SH kill? How many people did GWB kill? Facts, please, not prejudice.
Also, please source your statements. My reason for this is because your assertion is so false but prove me wrong if you can.
People need to make statements that are truthful. Just because it’s politics does not mean that truth no longer matters. Just because a statement is anti-Bush does not mean that facts no longer count.
Dear Anon (“Saddam was a visionary”),
You asked the question how can George Bush, etc.
He can do it by pointing out that the people of Iraq (remember them?) VOTED. The people now have hope for the future. They have a voice in their future. They can vote.
That’s how.
Mr Jack le Moine is completely right.
Saddam Hussein was a tyrant who abused the power which he gained through violence. The validity of his execution is independant of America. It should have been done long ago.
If you say otherwise, try to empathise with the victims of his crimes and their families and their decades of suffering.
One murdered innocent person is worth more than all the money in the world.
Your “visionary” is where he belongs.
A recent (video) talk about the crises in the middle east (with Robert Fisk and Noam Chomsky) can be found at
http://tinyurl.com/fgoda
A blog about the middle east is available at
http://juancole.com/
jack le moine, since you have an idea on every single thing why don’t you create your own blog?
Anonymous said…
jack le moine, since you have an idea on every single thing why don’t you create your own blog?
I did. Click on my name.
This changes nothing.
These people only know diplomacy via bloodshed…by their own admission. And in doing so, demonstrate to all other humans their own inhumanity.
Saddam’s legacy, regime, and inhumanity and disregard towards his fellow man is best summed up by his role model and idol, Joseph Stalin:
“Death solves all problems – no man, no problem.”
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/josephstal109570.html
@jack le moin – indeed – dear jack – the questions are – how much? why? and why not elsewhere? (Ruanda, a few years ago… e.g.).
IMHO there is no way for the Bush’s to gabble on justice to detract from the more private than political motivated war against a Saddam Hussein.
BTW – to be US president does obviously help a lot to achieve a common purpose with some friends, e.g. from old oil industry connections …
thx – by the way – for confirming my jaundices…
your still humble Vohaul
Stop the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine, and elect a decent american president not from the oil business. Two basic steps to peace.
Jack le moine
your picture looks really creepy
you have the looks that frighten children
pls change the pic
We come to realize now that Iraq can only be kept together under the gun. But we were not humble enough to apologize when did not find any WMDs and put Saddam back in power to fix up the mess that we created.
Now the elite of Iraq has fled because we’ve been unable to maintain the peace after dismantling the army. A bunch of thugs headed by Sadr are now waiting patiently for us to capitulate and hand them over Iraq.
We are so naive but sometimes it is necessary to put aside our ideals and get down in the gutter to dispatch the Thugs. Only then can democracy takes hold.
Unless the American gets out and hangs all thier traitors leaders and bankers…
No peace!
Unless Israel stop its stupid religious dream for a greater Israel and continue to steal Palestinian land since 1927-1948…
No peace!
Unless if The Jews and American can think of a way to genocide the whole A-rabs and take the thier land like they did hundreds years ago to the Red indjian(genocide them all)…
No Peace!
Hey, kuku man, I wasn’t going to comment again in this post but yours was such a really wierd comment!
———–
“Unless the American gets out and hangs all thier traitors leaders and bankers…”
Are you saying that GWB and Co. is operating AGAINST America? Wasn’t the whole rap on him and his kind that he was too nationalistic pro-American?
———-
“Unless Israel stop its stupid religious dream for a greater Israel and continue to steal Palestinian land since 1927-1948…”
1927?? What is so special about 1927? And didn’t Israel just give back Gaza and most of the West Bank?
————
“Unless if The Jews and American can think of a way to genocide the whole A-rabs and take the thier land like they did hundreds years ago to the Red indjian(genocide them all)…
“No Peace”
So, not withstanding anything America might do regarding your first two points, there STILL won’t be any peace? Is that what you are saying?
the worst and the most sad thing is: many people (mostly shia and kurds) are very happy and they even greet the execution of Saddam with cheers in their occupied country. I don’t expect them to mourn for Saddam but their greetings with cheers make me think how miserable they are.
>>It was organizations like the 8th. Air Force with bombs, the 3rd. Army with tanks, and 101 Airborne with guns.
In fact, it was the 68th Ukrainian Division of the Red Army.