Who won the debate?
– Sarah Palin
– Joe Biden
– What debate? Was it tonight?
Click here to vote.
Chess Daily News from Susan Polgar
Who won?
About Author
Who won the debate?
– Sarah Palin
– Joe Biden
– What debate? Was it tonight?
Click here to vote.
It wan’t even close. Palin won big tonight. Biden was too grumpy.
Palin 1-0 Biden!
I don’t think Biden was grumpy—I think he did well—and while listening on the car radio driving back from a 6-9pm school event, I thought Palin’s first 15 minutes were a disaster of grammar, incoherent non-answers, and prepared lines repeated too often. But I have to say she played well on TV, and about 30 minutes in her answers started cohering. She won some exchanges, and her energy kept up full-tilt, while Biden seemed to tire between the 60th and 75th minutes (same timeframe as a soccer match:-).
I think Biden ducked following up the point about what General McKiernan said in Afghanistan today, when Palin switched the subject from “surge tactics” to “counterinsurgency tactics” while pretending they were the same, because Palin also mispronounced the name as “McClellan”. I think Biden was coached not to make cheap corrections and that kicked in, leaving Palin apparently the winner of a big debate point but unfairly so. (Never mind that I’ve linked a pro-Dem source—I caught this the instant she said it.)
Biden should have come up with a better response to the “looking backward” jabs, something like “What the past 8 years have proved is that if you constantly badmouth the federal government, you’re going to be bad at federal governing.” Even pulling out the old George Santayana line would have worked.
Still, however, her pitch in the last 15 minutes was really condescending to voters. Whether that or her pep makes the most lasting impression will determine one’s reaction to the debate. By the kind of educational standards we need to stay abreast as a nation, such as taught in high-school debate, where you must at least answer the question, it was Biden hands-down—except on Iraq and Afghanistan. By zinger standards—and I don’t underestimate their importance—Palin won.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RJAnefJKA
I don’t know which debate you saw…. Palin looked exactly what she is…a housewife and mom …but without any clue on politics.
She could just produce some phrases she was taught beforehand but she has nothing to add herself…
Biden made at least 10 mistakes about facts during the debate last night. He even screwed up with the constitution.
Commenter #4 (anon 1:10): A “clown” ad works only when it connects to actions or policy. This one was timed to predict a Biden gaffe in the debate and that didn’t happen. To quote Biden’s words on Obama’s “1982” ad, with which I agree, it’s terrible.
Commenter #6 (7:51): I’m glad there are lots of people who fit the first category in my last paragraph.
Here’s a comment with some more good analysis, including:
2. Biden won the major “chess move” of the night – big. It played out this way over and over throughout the 90 minutes: Biden would attack the Bush admininstration and tie McCain to Bush. Palin was coached to say that Biden is looking to the past and not the future. Biden would then say that he’s examining the past becasue substantively, a McCain/Palin administration wouldn’t differ from the Bush administration on any issue important to the average voter – challenging Palin to highlight and ennumerate the substantive differences on policy between Bush and McCain. She never did, thus giving credence and import to Biden’s repeated examinations of the past.
I still say it needed to be reinforced with a better line than his “the past is prologue”, e.g. “You can’t throw your leader under the bus, and then sweep it under the rug.” BTW Santayana’s line is “Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it”, often paraphrased as “Those who haven’t learned the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.”
Sadly, recent studies indicate that we humans process political information with emotional rather than rational portions of our brains. Try to get over it. Another study shows that the politically conservative have more fearful reactions to unfamiliar stimuli than do those more liberal.
The winner of this election is Tina Fey.
Poor Tina Fey, Palin gave her nothing to work with this coming Saturday Night.
SNL should skit where Biden’s character gives a decent or mediocre answer, followed by Palin giving a stunningly deep and knowledgeable answer.
That is how Phil Hartman spoofed Reagan on SNL.
If I thought he meant to be untruthful, I’d call Biden a serial and habitual liar. However, I think he is just clueless instead and ends up being flat-out, demonstrably wrong over and over and over. A dozen or so examples (or until I run out of time):
1. On direct talks with Ahmadinejad, President of Iran: Obama said he would meet with him (and others) without preconditions (7/23 debate). At the time, Biden said that Obama was “naive” for that suggestion. Even now you can find on Obama’s website: “Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions…” Last night, Biden completely turned it on its head, saying, “Can I clarify this? This is simply not true about Barack Obama. He did not say sit down with Ahmadinejad.” A blatant falsehood! Absurd! He ridicules Obama’s position in the summer and then feebly and dishonestly tries to cover for him in the fall now that they are on the same team. Sick.
2. Biden said we spend more in Iraq in three weeks than we have spent in Afghanistan in the seven years since 2001. Grossly dishonest! We have spent $172b in Afghanistan and spend approx. $10b in Iraq per month. He’s not just 100% dead wrong on this one, he’s about 2000% wrong! […and he makes this claim repeatedly.] Why would he make such a claim when it is demonstrably false? Well, it DOES support his narrative of misplaced priorities in the fight against al Queda (and other virulent versions of Islam).
3. He has recently stated clearly and unamiguously that he is against off-shore drilling (e.g., 9/3/08) and colorfully compared it to “raping” the outer continental shelf. Now he says, “Drill we must.” Which is it Joe? I’m sure it depends on who is listening.
4. Biden: “…our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan.” What made the surge successful in Iraq was a switch to full-bore counterinsurgency strategy, i.e., treating local populations and leaders as allies and friends via community-building exercises (both material and political) and fighting side-by-side with local groups. The general populace now views the American military as friend and the insurgency as foe. That is the principle of the surge. To put it into practice, more troops were needed (whence the name “surge”). According to the commanding general in Afghanistan, “Our strategy of approaching counterinsurgency operations is a valid strategy here…Our problem is we don’t have enough resources to do it with.” The surge principles of counterinsurgency will indeed work, according to Gen. McKiernan: “I am more convinced than ever that the insurgency will not win in Afghanistan.” It is astounding that someone whom liberals tout as being such a foreign policy expert could get this issue so 180% wrong. (It is really more like 1260% wrong–after spinning for awhile, he heads off in completely the wrong direction). Knowledgeable? Ha!
5. Biden said that McCain and the GOP were at fault for the financial mess because they kept pushing for deregulation. But a look back (2004-2006) at the congressional record shows clear, repeated, and pointed GOP warnings about serious problems at Fannie and Freddie and the need for both tighter regulation and closer oversight. Democrats kept saying [paraphrase]: “There’s no problem at Fannie and Freddie. In fact, they are doing a great job increasing home ownership rates by issuing subprime loans to the disadvantaged.” Bill Clinton himself recently acknowledged that a big part of the blame goes to Democrats in congress for blocking GOP efforts to reform the system. Biden got this exactly backwards because the facts don’t match his preferred narrative.
6. On the constitutional role of VP, Biden is terribly confused. He said, the only role in the legislative branch for the “..vice president [is] to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there’s a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.” It’s true that the Constitution is explicit, that the VP is the President of the Senate. Period. He (or she!) doesn’t normally preside over the Senate because the VP can’t vote except to break ties, but when the VP actually presides is a matter of choice, not constitutional imperative. Biden got worked up into a tizzy on this issue, but he is just plain wrong–appalling lack of understanding for a long-term Senator.
7. Another appalling lack of understanding of the Constitution was evident in his discussion of the gay marriage issue. Biden said, “The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted — same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That’s only fair. It’s what the Constitution calls for.” He’s right that it’s perfectly fair and even right that homosexuals be allowed to agree to have visitation rights in the hospital, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, etc. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. What is bizarre (and dangerous) is to assert that this is a matter of constitutional law. It is simply not addressed in the Constitution at all. His lack of basic understanding of the Constitution is frightening. I am amazed that someone who has been in the Senate for so long can be so clueless!
8. In an effort to bolster his “regular Joe” credentials, he talked about going to Union Street in Wilmington to visit Katie’s restaurant, where he likes to spend a lot time, and ask the people there about the economic problems. “Katie’s Restaurant”?! It’s been closed for 20 years! How can we believe anything that comes out of this man’s mouth.
9. Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out outlined on Sept. 19. But it doesn’t at all address two of them, viz. that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.” He is a serial distorter.
Overall, a terrible performance by a vintage Biden. However, the MSM will wholly overlook his falsehoods and shallow understanding because they are overwhelmingly unabashed Obama supporters.
Two more horrific lies by Biden:
10. Biden said, “John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported.” Actually, 49 other Republican senators voted ‘no’ with McCain. He spouted this lie to make the point that McCain’s ideas are bizarrely at odds with everyone else, but Biden’s statement is far, far from the truth. An egregious mischaracterization of McCain’s stance.
11. Biden: “Pakistan’s [nuclear] weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean.” Simply not true. Isreal is 2000 miles from Pakistan (and the Mediterranean is farther), but the longest range that Pakistani missiles can carry a nuke is around 1000 miles (with poor accuracy).
I didn’t realize susan have so many Republicans following her blog, very interesting.
I took Anon 11:53’s points as an academic exercise in verification, from the professional viewpoint of a computer scientist interested in the power and reliability of the Web. Here’s what I did in 1-1/2 hours:
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1. Here’s an RNC item quoting what Obama said at the 7/23/07 debate. The question he was responding to lumped Iran, North Korea, and Cuba in with Syria and Venezuela. There is a meaningful distinction between meeting with Ahmadinejad and with other Iranian leaders, such as Khamenei.
2. NPR this morning parsed Biden carefully: the comparison is between military spending in Iraq and assistance in Afghanistan: construction, supplies, education, shoring up infrastructure. Then the $$s are accurate. NPR found this weasly, but I know an Afghanistan commander personally and the latter is the greatest need there—so the comparison is apt.
3. From the original July 15 source, the distinction is between giving oil companies carte-blanche and between a specific drilling project, in specific locations, with controls.
4. As I noted above, this is confusing “surge” with “COINS”. The former means a temporary increase in troop levels to regain civil control of held areas; the latter are means to that end. You can have COINS without “surge”—as clarified here, and my commander acquaintance is dead specific on that point.
5. The point is that deregulation creates the need for reform, because it encourages excess. Per my classification in comments here, the deregulation came from (1) and was enacted, and then elements of (2) saw it going sour and called for reform.
6. Where exactly was Biden wrong? This item is not listed by Fox here nor in Biden’s 14 Lies “fresh from the McCain people”.
7. That “equal rights” equates with “equal protection” as enshrined in the Constitution is a standard liberal position, to be applied liberally—and I’d call the 2000 Bush v. Gore decision a similar application.
8. He probably conflated “Katie’s” with the “Kozy Korner”, which is still on Union Street. And the “Katie’s” sign two blocks away still exists.
9. Obama’s four conditons are: “…a payback plan for taxpayers if the bailout succeeds; a bipartisan board to oversee the bailout; limits on any federal money going to compensate Wall Street executives; and aid to homeowners who are struggling to pay their mortgages.” Not the two you mentioned—nor at the “14 lies” item #13 which says the same thing.
10. Anon. 12:04pm is correct here, and this FAS.ORG page also cites McCain’s 5/27/08 speech in which he said he’d revisit the treaty with an open mind.
11. The issue appears to be whether Pakistan has a Tipu missile, range given by FAS as “4000 km” = 2500 miles. I can find Web references speculating on this as an actuality going back to 1999.
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As I’ve explained to Susan privately, sometimes my long comments are for private consumption: () it’s easier to include a URL in a short e-mail than to mouse-copy long text, and () saying it in public under my name conveys my responsibility to get it right. I do this only when it’s relevant to the topic. In this case I have some relevant friends to circulate this to.
“Anonymous said…
I didn’t realize susan have so many Republicans following her blog, very interesting.”
Republicans love Blondes! >:)
Democrats love Dirty Blondes! >;)
Sarah was brilliant
Biden was a liar
sarah
no bout adoubt it
I think chesspalyers are more naturally Republican.. They prize individuality, competetion, and the game itself seems to favor a sort of innate paranoia.
That being said, cooperation, community, and an assumption of benevolence has much to be said for it, and accounts for most of humanitiy’s progress over the millenia.
Any idiot can mobilize an army.